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[Datsun 1200 encyclopedia]

Steering Gearbox Swaps

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Category: Steering System
Revision as of 22:31, 10 January 2012
ddgonzal (Talk | contribs)

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ddgonzal (Talk | contribs)

Line 1: Line 1:
-Only Datsun 1200 gearboxes fit. Nissan South Africa sells brand-new steering gearbox units for B140 which might fit. Datsun [[B310]] uses a seperate column and gearbox with a flexible coupling. So it is not a direct replacement for vintage B110s.+Only Datsun 1200 gearboxes fit. Nissan South Africa sells brand-new steering gearbox units for B140 which might fit. Datsun [[B310]] uses a seperate column and gearbox with a flexible coupling -- so the B310 box is not a direct replacement for vintage B110s.
= Other Datsun Gear = = Other Datsun Gear =
-Only Datsun 1200 gearbox interchanges. +Only Datsun 1200 gearboxes interchange with Datsun 1200s.
-B110 mounts with one front bolt, two rear bolts. PB110, B210, B310, 510 mount with two front bolts, single rear bolt. Cherry uses Rack & Pinion, so it does not interchange+B110 mounts with one front bolt, two rear bolts. PB110, B210, B310, 510 have the opposite configuration: two front bolts, single rear bolt. That being said, it might be possible to drill new holes and weld in tubes and washers, thus recreating the original holes in a new configuration (the same way the factory did).
 + 
 +Cherry uses Rack & Pinion, so it does not interchange.
B310 48010-23100 OR 48010-23130 for A14/A15 (housing 48011-21400) B310 48010-23100 OR 48010-23130 for A14/A15 (housing 48011-21400)
B310 48010-H8800 for A12A (housing 48011-H8800) B310 48010-H8800 for A12A (housing 48011-H8800)
- A10 48010-W5850 OR 48010-W5800 (housing 48011-U5200)+ A10 48010-W5850 OR 48010-W5800 (housing 48011-U5200)
- +
-= Rack And Pinion Steering =+
-Consensus:+
-* NOT recommended for circuit or road racing+
-* Recommended for Drag Racing+
-* Jury's out on how well it works for a street car. Those who have done it report good success, those who haven't say the engineering does not add up. See the '''Considerations''' section below+
- +
-GM Opel-built Holden Barina R&P in Datsun 1200:+
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/uploads/newbb/9512_4de5f0c24827b.jpg http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/newbb/9512_4de5f0c24827b.jpg]+
- +
- Discussions: +
- * [http://datsun1200.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32356&forum=1 1200 steering box rebuild/replace - what options?]+
- * [http://datsun1200.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35661&forum=1 Rack and pinion steering for Datsun 1200]+
- +
- +
-Has anyone ever done it? Yes...+
-* Race cars with front tube frame (custom suspension and steering geometry)+
-*: [http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=13766 http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photos/thumbs/13766.jpg]+
-* [http://datsun1200.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22446&forum=1 dat383] has fitted rack and pinion steering to a 1200 drag racer+
-* 1200 with full Escort front suspension (rack + struts + steering arms matched)+
-* [http://datsun1200.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32533&forum=1 wards] fitted a Nissan Micra box to his ute+
-* [http://datsun1200.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32533&forum=1 maddatto] is experimentng on a KB Laser fitment+
-* [[Bob Cooper]] fitted a Mini rack to his Datsun 1200+
-* Janspeed racing 1200, Mini rack?+
-*: [http://datsun1200.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35661&forum=1&start=20&39 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?uri=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/ratdat/B110/rack4.jpg]+
-* 1200 Coupe rally car from UK+
-*: [http://datsun1200.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35661&forum=1&start=20&39 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?uri=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/ratdat/B110/rack1.jpg]+
- +
- +
-There are several Datsun 510s with rack and pinion steering swaps. One uses a rack from a Datsun 200SX. Here's what he did: +
-* Move the engine crossmember back a couple inches (which necessitates changes to the engine mounts)+
-* Weld simple flat brackets to the x-member so the rack can be bolted on+
-* Cut the tie-rod ends and weld them back shorter (make sure you have an expert welder do that). For proper handling, they need to be exactly the same length overall as the A-arm overall lengths+
-* Use a newer steering column that has a flex-joint on the end. He used a 200SX column.+
-The swap had three u-joints and a fairly big angle from the end of the column to the rack, but he said it works great, much better than the stock 510 steering box. No slop!+
- +
- +
-Would it be better to cut the steering arms shorter and rethread them for the tie-rod ends? +
- +
-wards said:<blockquote><hr>I agree this project is not for a novice , I have changed my approach many times as i have discovered pluses and minuses in my geometry , as with any motorsport catergory it's a compromise to achieve a workable result . My aim is to build in as much adjustability as possible to try to cover all bases .<hr></blockquote>+
- +
- +
-== Swap Information ==+
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22446&forum=1 Dat383 used a Holden Gemini] (Isuzu) steering rack in front of the crossmember. +
- +
-* Brackets are fabricated and welded to the crossmember. Because this fits to the front of the crossmember, while the Datsun steering was behing the xmember, swap the complete strut/brake/LCA assemblies from left to right.+
-* Shortened the Gemini rack ends and then re-thread them to suit.+
-* The front radius arms needed to have a bend pressed into them to clear the tie rod ends when the suspension is on the bump stops.+
-* Modify the standard 1200 steering colum to suit:+
-** Cut the outside of the column at the steering box and fabricate a plate out of steel, using the original rubber locator as a guide.+
-** Drill a hole in the plate the same size as the outer diameter of the column+
-** Weld the plate to the column.+
-** With the modified column fitted to the car and the inner steering shaft coming out, make a short steering shaft with two small uni-joints to join the colum and rack together.+
= Factory Steering Boost = = Factory Steering Boost =
-A page in the Japan-market Sunny Truck parts catalog shows a power assist system.+A page in the Japan-market Sunny Truck parts catalog appears to show a power assist system.
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=4128 http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photos/thumbs/4128.jpg]+{{Album|4128}}
-The page is titled "Group Index - Chassis". It uses a generic diagram to show which page of the catalog to look at. +The page is titled "Group Index - Chassis". It uses a generic diagram to show which page of the catalog to look at.
-It turns out the Sunny Truck did not have a power-assist option - those parts in the diagram don't have a page number but are marked '*' . It's just a generic picture used in all the catalogs.+It turns out the Sunny Truck did not have a power-assist option - those parts in the diagram don't have a page number but are marked '*' . It's just a generic picture used in all the catalogs. No factory 1200, not even the last 1990s version, used power steering. The diagram appears similar to the Z-car setup with power rack & pinion.
= Electric Power Steering = = Electric Power Steering =
Line 78: Line 27:
[http://datsun1200.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&type=&topic_id=49407&forum=1 Discussion] [http://datsun1200.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&type=&topic_id=49407&forum=1 Discussion]
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=22714 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/22714.jpg] [http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=22715 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/22715.jpg]+{{Album|22714}} {{Album|22715}} {{Album|22800}} {{Album|22801}} {{Album|22802}} {{Photo!|SG.jpg}} {{Photo!|SG-.jpg}}
- +
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=22800 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/22800.jpg] [http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=22801 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/22801.jpg] +
- +
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=22802 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/22802.jpg]+
= Flaming River = = Flaming River =
Long the hotrodder's choice for custom steering systems, [http://www.flamingriver.com Flaming River] sells electric steering gearboxes. This is a column-assist type, and can work with any steering gearbox that accepts a custom column. Long the hotrodder's choice for custom steering systems, [http://www.flamingriver.com Flaming River] sells electric steering gearboxes. This is a column-assist type, and can work with any steering gearbox that accepts a custom column.
-[http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=356/category_id=-1/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd356.htm http://www.flamingriver.com/cartimages/prd_lg_356.jpg]+[http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=356/category_id=-1/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd356.htm Flaming River]
- +<br>{{Photo!|prd_lg_356.jpg|forum}}
-= Swap =+
-But what if you don't want to spend thousands for the Flaming River kit? Can a junkyard part be modified to work? Electric Rack & Pinion steering geaboxes can be found in:+
-* Acura NSX (first production car with it)+
-* Honda S2000+
-* Toyota Prius +
-* Toyota RAV4+
-* 2004-2009 Chevrolet Malibu+
-* 2005-2009 Chevrolet Cobalt+
-* 2005-2009 Chevrolet Equinox+
-* 2006-2009 Chevrolet HHR+
-* 2005-2009 Pontiac G6+
-* 2006-2009 Pontiac Torrent+
-* 2007-2009 Pontiac G5+
-* 2002-2009 Saturn VUE+
-* 2003-2008 Saturn ION+
-* Kia Forte EX+
- +
-A typical design has the electric power module mounted on or connected to the steering column. The rack itself is similar to a manual rack. The power module incorporate an electric motor similar in size to a windshield wiper motor.+
- +
-By contrast, Honda has the electric assist motor with the steering gearbox instead of on the column.+
- +
-= Considerations =+
-For '''street cars''', it is safety first. For safety, you wish to a small amount of [[wikipedia: Bump steer|Bump Steer]] to induce slight understeering. For '''circuit race cars or rally''', you probaly won't win without excellent (and fast) handling. But '''drag racing vehicles''' don't need to have "good handling" vehicles -- they just need to go very straight. So steering gearbox swaps are popular on these cars, precise geometry is not important on a drag racer.+
- +
- +
-To do a steering gear swap "correctly" for proper handling, the following must be done:+
- +
- +
-'''Bump Steer'''+
-<br>http://datsun1200.com/uploads/newbb/174_4c79af0d2edef.jpg+
-<br>Inner dimension: 473mm for B110 (about 559 for B310)+
- +
-* To prevent excessive '''bump steer''' the ends of the gearbox linkage (where it meets the tie rod ends) must be equal to or less than the distance between the LCA inner pivots. (compare to inner rod ends on the original drag link).+
-** No bump steer may contribute to oversteer in some cornering conditions. With race cars this is OK (and racers will tune out excessive oversteer in others parts of the suspension), but a street car wants a slight understeer to help prevent easy ''spinouts''. A typical value is two degrees per metre for the front wheels.+
-** Excessive bump steer causes the steering wheel to jerk when going over bumps, and to wander left and right while driving+
-** NOTE: Many factory cars have a bit more bump steer than needed due to engineering compromises.+
-* Most important: The up-and-down relationship of the new gearbox matters. It should be in the same plane as the ends of the Steering Knuckles during actual driving+
-** Bump steer can be made more toe out in jounce by '''lifting the rack''' if the rack is in front of the axle. The reverse applies if the rack is behind the axle. Usually only small adjustments (say 3mm) are required.+
-** For race cars, the designer may choose to match this to a cornering condition, or something other than "normal driving"+
- +
- +
-'''Ackermann steering geometry'''+
-* For good conering, precise [[wikipedia:Ackermann steering geometry|Ackermann steering geometry]] agles of the steering arms is required. True ackerman is where the steering arms point to the mid-point of the rear axle centerline. This is most important for low-speed cornering.+
-** http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Ackermann_New.jpg/140px-Ackermann_New.jpg+
-** This is important for gearbox swaps as well as [[Strut Swaps]]+
- +
-Some race cars use reverse Ackermann geometry to compensate for the large difference in slip angle between the inner and outer front tires while cornering at high speed. The use of such geometry helps reduce tire temperatures during high-speed cornering but compromises performance in low speed manoeuvres.[+
- +
-For more information, see [[wikipedia:Ackermann steering geometry]]+
- +
-Rear-steer box+
- +
-Swing of box+
- +
-Length of steering knuckles+
- +
-Use a center pivot box?+
- +
- +
- +
- Nissan B11 48001-04A01+
- Length: 1,110mm [283+283+544?]+
- +
- Side Rod 48521-35A06 (B11/B12/N13/S13)+
- Length: 283mm+
- Outer thread: 14*1.5+
- Outer thread1: 12*1.25+
- 1983 Civic+= Rack & Pinion =
- ~530 mm pivot to pivot+Rack & Pinion has been adapted to many Datsun 1200s.
- +
- 1997 Corolla+
- ~570 mm pivot to pivot+
 + See main article: [[Rack and Pinion Steering]]
-[[Category:Steering System]]+[[Category:Steering System]]{{End}}

Current revision

Only Datsun 1200 gearboxes fit. Nissan South Africa sells brand-new steering gearbox units for B140 which might fit. Datsun B310 uses a seperate column and gearbox with a flexible coupling -- so the B310 box is not a direct replacement for vintage B110s.

Contents

[edit]

Other Datsun Gear

Only Datsun 1200 gearboxes interchange with Datsun 1200s.

B110 mounts with one front bolt, two rear bolts. PB110, B210, B310, 510 have the opposite configuration: two front bolts, single rear bolt. That being said, it might be possible to drill new holes and weld in tubes and washers, thus recreating the original holes in a new configuration (the same way the factory did).

Cherry uses Rack & Pinion, so it does not interchange. 

B310 48010-23100 OR 48010-23130 for A14/A15 (housing 48011-21400)
B310 48010-H8800 for A12A (housing 48011-H8800)
A10  48010-W5850 OR 48010-W5800 (housing 48011-U5200)
[edit]

Factory Steering Boost

A page in the Japan-market Sunny Truck parts catalog appears to show a power assist system.

4128.jpgAlbum 4128

The page is titled "Group Index - Chassis". It uses a generic diagram to show which page of the catalog to look at.

It turns out the Sunny Truck did not have a power-assist option - those parts in the diagram don't have a page number but are marked '*' . It's just a generic picture used in all the catalogs. No factory 1200, not even the last 1990s version, used power steering. The diagram appears similar to the Z-car setup with power rack & pinion.

[edit]

Electric Power Steering

Late model Nissans and Toyodas use electric power steering.

[edit]

Japan Kit

Discussion

22714.jpgAlbum 22714 22715.jpgAlbum 22715 22800.jpgAlbum 22800 22801.jpgAlbum 22801 22802.jpgAlbum 22802 SG.jpg SG-.jpg

[edit]

Flaming River

Long the hotrodder's choice for custom steering systems, Flaming River sells electric steering gearboxes. This is a column-assist type, and can work with any steering gearbox that accepts a custom column.

Flaming River
prd_lg_356.jpg

[edit]

Rack & Pinion

Rack & Pinion has been adapted to many Datsun 1200s. 

See main article: Rack and Pinion Steering 
¤

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