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Revision as of 21:53, 22 July 2015

S13 (1989-1993 Silvia, 180SX, 200SX) brakes can be modified for use on Datsun 1200 struts. They are large-diameter vented discs, so good for street and track use both. The 250 mm rotor fits under 14" wheels, while the 280 mm rotor requires 15" wheels. Alternatively the 257 mm rotor is a great alternative and also available from many Nissan vehicles besides the S13.

Overview

The reason to use S13 instead of S14 is that S13 is four-stud rotors. Some S14 have five-bolt rotors on the turbo models, yet the brakes are not any bigger.

forum

KB110 Brakes:
* tiny single-pot twin-piston caliper
* tiny non-ventilated disc

S13 Brakes:
* large single-pot caliper 
* large ventilated disc

RS13 (240SX Coupe, 180SX)

S13 (Silvia, 240SX Hardtop, 200SX)

S13 came 4-bolt with various rotor sizes:

FRONT
250mm diameter Front Turbo & non-turbo
251mm diameter Front USA Non-ABS
257mm diameter Front EUROPE late + USA ABS
280mm diameter 1991-1992 Turbo & non-turbo

REAR 
258mm diameter Rear

S13 brakes onto b110 struts discussion in Main Forum

once again the s13 disk conversion Discussion

Steps

Get 1200 disc struts
Obtain hubs from 1200 drum struts
Fit longer wheel studs to the hubs
Remove the 1200 disc hubs & fit the drum hubs
Obtain matched set of S13 rotors & calipers & caliper adapter
Machine rotor centers from 68 mm out to 70 mm to clear the 1200 hub center
Bolt on the caliper adapter, slip on the rotor and bolt on the caliper
Fit a new lower half brake hose and bleed the brakes

Rim Size

14" wheels fit the 250mm and 257mm brakes. The 280mm brakes use 15" or 16" wheels.

Certain 13" rims will fit 250mm brakes, but most will not.

13" Watanabe

13" alloy rim over 250mm brakes

B110 Drum Hubs

Use 1200 (B110) drum hubs on the 1200 disc struts.

They require no machining
They do not increase the track

There is a 5mm difference in offset compared to disc hubs, so either use thicker caliper bracket or a 5mm spacer on the "standard" custom bracket.

NOTE: Later B120 ute/truck drum hubs reportedly require slight machining.

Machined Hubs

You can use the 1200 disc hubs, but it will increase track, and requires some machining.

Machine hub registration diameter of rotor from 68 mm to 70 mm
Machine outer diameter of hub down to clear the inside of rotor

machining

Longer Wheel Studs

Since the S13 rotor floats over the 1200 hub, it will require longer wheel studs. Swap the S13 studs to the 1200 hubs, or swap in any compatible Wheel Studs.

The rotor hat thickness is 7.7 mm -- so the studs need to be at least 8mm longer than stock.

This also means track increases 7.7 x 2 = 15.4 mm total. Using a 1200 drum hub on the 1200 disc strut will prevent the track increase but then will require a spacer for the caliper.

Caliper Adapter Bracket

For 1200 disc brake struts & hub, use a 12mm thick bracket to center the S13 caliper over the S13 rotor. When using disc strut with drum hub you will need 5mm spacers (or a 17mm thick bracket).

Bracket for 250mm rotor differs from 280mm rotor. Although some brackets can accomodate either rotor. The Kev Rowley brackets work with either size of discs and calipers.

IMPORTANT: When purchasing adapters, ask the seller which caliper and which rotor they are for.

Discussion

[Kev Rowley bracket

The calipers for 250mm & 280mm rotor use the same bolt spacing (reportedly 100mm or 103mm), so either caliper will work with an appropriate bracket adapter (obviously the spacing will need to vary). The hubs and spindles are the same regardless of brake size. The caliper bracket is much taller on the 280mm brakes -- and wider too to accomodate the wider brake pads.

silvia brakes on 120y strut

280mm brakes

Master Cylinder

Use the stock 1200 disc brake master cylinder with S13 brake calipers.

Brake Booster

A brake booster is not needed. Applying the brakes will need a little more leg pressure, so you may find a booster helpful. See Brake Booster Swaps

Brake Hoses

Obtain the S13 brake hoses and fit the from the S13 caliper to the 1200's hardlines.

One end to fit the 1200's hardline: M10
One end to fit the S13 caliper banjo fitting
12.125" length (approximately 1 inch longer than 1200 hose)
Rockauto.com

Non-ABS model S13

Other hoses can also be used, including N14 Pulsar (1990-1995) and even Corolla hoses.

S13 Brakes on 120Y Disc-brake Struts

NOTE: 120Y is A12-powered B210. It uses different struts than A14-powered B210. 120Y uses the same strut as B110.

The Silvia S13, S14 centre bore is 68mm and the 1200 hub is 70mm at the disk seat. But the Silvia disk has a huge backspacing compared to the 1200 disk. Perhaps 2mm need to be machined off?

You need an adaptor plate for the the calipers.

You may need to swap the struts right-to-left and left-to-right to clear the steering arms. Also, mount the calipers INBOARD for better weight distribution.

'78 120y struts discs and calipers cos they're an aussie assembled PBR product. i also swapped the struts left to right to clear the steering arms once i put silvia rotors and calipers in place. low1000

Optional: use Hilux 4-pot calipers, which only involve the elongation of one bolt hole with a round file and then bolt straight up over 180SX discs. These are similar to MK63 Brakes calipers but are cast iron instead of alloy.

Wise words from Bundy351: I am running 120y struts in my 1200 ute. On these struts I have a Kev Rowley Brake adaptor plate (about $100 for the pair) Rotors, calipers, calliper bolts (2 per caliper) and wheel studs from a 1989 nissan silvia. You also need the flexi brake hose (mine came off a 1995 corolla cause thats all I could find). Very simple conversion.

MACHINE THE OUTER DIAMETER OF THE HUBS DOWN SO THE ROTOR WILL SLIDE OVER IT (150mm FROM MEMORY BUT I HAVE HAD ALLOT OF RUM SINCE I DID CONVERSION) PREFERABLY USE A LATHE BUT YOU CAN USE A GRINDER.
KNOCK OUT 120Y STUDS AND BANG IN SILVIA ONES
CUT A 10mm SLOT IN THE HOSE MOUNT ON THE STRUT TUBE (LITTLE METAL TAB THE BRAKE HOSE SITS IN)
BOLT BRACKETS TO STRUTS
SLIDE ROTORS ON
BOLT CALIPERS ON WITH PADS
CONNECT HOSES
BLEED
RE-FIT WHEELS
TEST DRIVE

WHERE TO CUT THE 10mm SLOT

WHAT THE BRACKET LOOKS LIKE

FINISHED PRODUCT

Part Numbers

Rotor

RS13 Japan 180SX 8903-9812
[250 mm] 40206-35F01 8903-9101 CA18DET
[280 mm] 40206-55F03 9101-9812 SR20DE+SR20DET <> 40206-7J101,40206-73L01,40206-73L02

S13 Japan Silvia 8805-9310
[250 mm] 40206-35F01 SR20DE.2WS+CA18DE+CA18DET 8805-9310 <> 40206-35F02
[280 mm] 40206-55F01 2WS.KS+4WS 9308- <> 40206-55F03,40206-7J101,40206-73L01,40206-73L02

S13 EUROPE 200SX 0988-1293 (CA18DET)
[257 mm] 40206-71E01/40206-71E02 0988-0991
[280 mm] 40206-55F01/40206-55F03 0991-1293

S13 USA 240SX 0788-0993
[251 mm (9.9 inch), non-ABS] 40206-40F01 0788-0891, 40206-40F02 0891-0993
[257 mm (10.1 inch), ABS] 40206-71E01 1188-0993 OPTION F/ANTI SKID CONT-4WH 
<> 40206-71E02,40206-71E05,40206-71E06,40206-71E07

Caliper

JAPAN caliper
[f/250mm rotor] 41001-35F00,41001-35F01
[f/280mm rotor] 41001-73L01

EUROPE caliper
[f/257mm rotor] 41001-44F00,41001-44F01 -0991
[f/280mm rotor] 41001-73L01 0991-

USA caliper
[f/251mm rotor] 41001-40F00,41001-40F01 (non-ABS)
[f/257mm rotor] 41001-44F00,41001-44F01 (ABS)

Interchange

S13 vs S14

JAPAN
S13 used 250 or 280 mm rotors
S14 used 251 or 275 mm rotors on base SR20DE 2WS models. 5-lug on others.
* 251mm 40206-40F03 9310-9606 40206-40F02
* 257mm 40206-71E07 9606-9812 40206-71E06 

EUROPE
S13 used 257 or 280 mm rotors
S14 used 5-lug rotors

USA
S13 used 251 or 257 mm rotors
S14 used same for STD models. SE models used 5-lug rotors

250 mm

Nissan 40206-35F01,40206-35F02 ROTOR
DBA 918

JAPAN
  S13 Silvia
 RS13 180SX

250mm pads are same as
* SUZUKI SWIFT 
  Hatchback (EA, MA) 8903-0312
  Sedan (AH, AJ)     8903-0105

251 mm

40206-40F01,40206-40F02,40206-40F03
Brembo 09.5281.10

 JAPAN
  * A31 Cefiro RB20E
  * C33 Laurel CA18I + RB20E + RD28
  * R32 Skyline CA18I

 USA
  * S13 240SX non-ABS
  * S14 240SX 4-lug 0294-0796

257 mm

Nissan 40206-71E01,40206-71E02,40206-71E05,40206-71E06,40206-71E07
Brembo 09.5449.10
DBA 617

AUSTRALIA
U12 Pintara

JAPAN
S14 9606- 2WS.SR20DE
M11 Prairie 8809-9508
C22 Vanette 8809-9403
C33 Laurel 8812-9212
C34 Laurel 9301-9705
P10/W10 Primera 9002-9611
WP11 9709-0011
R32 Skyline 8905-9411
A31 Cefiro 8809-9406
U12 Bluebird 8709-9108
U13 Bluebird 9109-9511
U14 Bluebird 9601-

USA 
S13 240SX 1188-0993 with ABS
S14 240SX 0796-0698 STD (except SE)
M11 Axxess 0189-0394
U12 Stanza 0789-0692

280 mm

Nissan 40206-7J101,40206-55F01,40206-55F03,40206-73L01,40206-2F501
DBA 919
Brembo 09.5254.20
Ferodo DDF959

 JAPAN
  * B15 0004- SR16VE
  * P11 0004- SR20VE, 4WD.SR20DE.MT, SR20DE.AT.F4
  * U14 0004- SR20VE
  * WP11 0004- SR20DE.MT.FT + SR20DE.AT.F4
  * WP11 0004- SR20DE.AT.CVT + SR20VE
  * P11 SR20VE, OPTION SR20DE
  * RS13, S13 some
  * U14 SR20VE
  * WP11 some
  * A31 4WD.IRS.RB20DT, OPTION.2WD.IRS+2WD.HICAS.RB20DT.AT.FR, OPTION.RB20
  * C33 some
  * C34 some
  * R32 some
 USA
  * U13U 0692-0794 KA24DE.SE, OPTION.GXE, OPTION.AT
  * U13U 0794- KA24DE

Specifications

250 mm
Thickness: 18 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Height: 49 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm

251 mm
Height: 49.2 mm
Thickness: 20 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Size 12.75 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm

257 mm
Height: 49 mm
Thickness: 22 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Size 12.6 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm
inside diameter (over hub): 144
Caliper: Akebono

280 mm
Height: 49 mm
Thickness: 22 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm
inside diameter (over hub): 143.75
Caliper: Sumitomo

258 mm REAR
Height: 46.5 mm
Thickness: 9 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Size 12.75 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm

USA S13
251 mm rotor (non-ABS)
* caliper: 54mm bore (2.122")
* pads: 121x50.4 41060-G8190 D422
257 mm rotor (ABS)
* caliper: 57mm bore (2.25")
* pads: 137x54.3 41060-40F90 D449,D462,D469,D485,D700,D747,DD887
REAR 258 mm rotor
* caliper: 33mm bore (1-5/16")
* pads: 85.3x42.9 D230,D231,D232,D272
Use with wheels:
 6JJx15 +40
 4Tx15 +40
 4Tx16 +35

JAPAN SILVIA
250 mm rotor
* Caliper: 48mm bore
* pad: 115x47.6 AY040-NS926
* 5Jx14 wheel
280 mm rotor
* Caliper: 54mm bore
* pad: 137.2x53 AY040-NS929
* 6JJx15 +40 wheel

EUROPE 200SX
257 mm rotor to 09/1991
* caliper: 54mm bore
* pad: 137x54.6
280 mm rotor from 10/1991
* caliper: 54mm bore
* pad: 137.2x53

Brake Pads

[for 250 mm rotor]
AY040-NS926, AY040-NS825, AY040-NS009
Sangsin SP1183

S13 Japan - 250 mm rotor
AY040-NS926 PAD KIT <> AY040-NS825, AY040-NS009

[for 280mm rotor]
AY040-NS929 
Bosch 0986493450

S13 Japan - 280 mm rotor
* AY040-NS929 PAD KIT

[for 251 mm rotor]
41060-40F90,41060-40F91,41060-40F92,41060-40F92,D106M-40F90,D106M-40F94,D106M-40F25
Centric 102.04220

[for 257 mm rotor]
41060-G8190,D106M-G8190
Centric 301.07000

S13 brakes on 1200 Drum Strut

Using drum struts requires grinding the strut an fabricating a caliper bracket.

Chassis_slappin_1200 brake conversion

1st try: Bolt-on S13 250mm rotors

2nd try: Slip-on S13 rotor

257 Rotor

257mm rotors came on S13 EUROPE & USA, and S14 JAPAN -- and U12 Pintara in AUSTRALIA, among others (see Interchange section).

The normal mods are done to fit the rotor to fit the 1200/120Y struts. Use a caliper locating bracket of appropriate dimensions.

2-inch Struts

If you have Stanza/Sunny/200B struts, use the 4 spot Hilux Calipers which are a direct bolt-on requiring no adapter. The rotor requires machining of the bolt holes.

PARTS LIST
* 257 mm Nissan S13/S14/U12 rotors (DBA617)
* 4-pot Hilux Calipers and pads
* 2.0" Struts (A10, B310, etc)
* brake hoses

1200rallycar:

using U12 pintara discs you need to:

re-drill discs to 4x100mm to mount to hub machine out centre of disc slightly grind caliper to clear centre of hub ... possibly grind caliper to fit under 13" rims (depends on exact rim) you may also have to grind a little fat off the pad itself on the inside edge to clear the hub, cant remember but srb210 mentioned that

no spacers required, no changing to caliper mount just straight on to stanza mount caliper mounts to the back side of the car (in relation to the strut)

kit

U12 GLOBAL rotors
[250x22] 40206-51E01 CA18N+CA20S
[257x22] 40206-71E06 CA20E <5> 40206-4M405

U12 JAPAN
[250x22] 40206-51E01 CA16S,CA18I.2WD,LD20,SR18DI
[257x22] 40206-71E01 CA18DE,CA18DET,4WD.CA18I, SSS.SR18DI, SR20D
[280x22] 40206-80E01 8910- SR20DT 5-lug

1200 Disc Hubs

1200 hubs with U12 Pintara 257 x 22 mm vented rotors with VK Commodore Girlock calipers (same as Skyline R31 calipers but without the external fins which limit rim selection).

Photo is of Datsun 1000 suspension with 1200 disc brake hubs. A custom steel bracket is fabricated for the caliper mounting.

Turn down the flanges a little bit on the 1200 disc hubs. Discussion: 1000 for sale

Retrieved from "http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=S13_Brakes"

S13 Brakes